The following is a retroactive justification for my descent into madness trying to work out what settlement mods I should use in this latest clean reinstall of Skyrim SE. I have previously got great mileage since 2016 out of JK + DoS with Arthmoor where appropriate and honestly there's not much pushing me away from this set up. However, nowadays there are enough fleshed out alternatives and series that I thought I would try something different.I then thought I would have my cake and eat it too trying to mash as much together as I could- the mods that are tangentially related to cities, such as the carriages mods, the notice board and missives, docks, outlaws refuges, holidays, sewers, lanterns of skyrim II, glorious doors of skyrim, guards armour replacer... Pride comes before a month of modding algebra, as they say.As a side note I'm pretty sure any and all problems I have encountered with any mod are my own fault and I don't magically expect authors or patch makers to have everything perfect for my own convenience, especially if I am testing the limits of compatibility. Furthermore mod authors should ignore my criticisms as they're based on my tastes and mine alone- they do not invalidate the creativity and work you've put in. You're all brilliant. This is also not a guide to the best set up for cities in skyrim, merely a snapshot of madness.JK + DOS + ArthmoorJK I'm pretty sure is a staple of many many mod orders. It's all in one, touches most places players will spend time in, adds a bit of character or utility and frankly it does pretty well. Dawn of skyrim is similar- adds a load of stuff to the 5 cities. Using the two together using a patch leads to very busy cities- I think this is particularly good in Winterhold's grey quarter and Riften but starts to feel a little much in Whiterun. Besides, there was a new solitude overhaul I wanted to try! So in the interest of trying something new, I dropped Dawn of Skyrim and also learnt the tutorial from gamerspoets to make JK "modular". I like Arthmoor's villages/towns philosophy of simply making sure everyone has a place to live- it makes a place bigger while also inherently having a purpose and not bloated. Also after reading the description for each village where he points out which NPCs didn't have a bed of their own I can't forget those facts and it eats away at me at night. The series also touches on many small villages that aren't altered by anything else. Arthmoor's Bring Out Your Dead, Cutting Room Floor, Storefronts, and oblivion gates in cities are also important staples of many load orders, but for the first time I jettisoned Bring Out Your Dead- partly because I realised I never really visited the halls of the dead, partly because it was causing minor compatibility problems and I found it a weak link. Fans of graveyards should not despair- I picked up Sepolcri.You can also get all of the above mentioned "tangential" mods working with the JK/DoS/Arthmoor set up with patches, as well as big quest mods such as 3dnpcs, or various playerhomes. It's a fine setup, and I would recommend it if anyone hasn't given it a go. My desire to replace was basically FOMO on 2020 mods.The CompetitionThe Great Cities/Villages - This was the main series of mods that inspired me to try something else this time. Dramatically different in approach to JK or Arthmoor in the settlements the mod author soldierofwar has touched, when I see one of these mods I tend to expect strong boundary marking with big walls and grander "focus point" buildings. It's worth noting the author has said they're going back and redoing some of their older work. Though it comes in an AIO they're also published separately, which is what I ended up having to use and am eternally grateful for.Cities of the North - Where the Great Cities changes the layout, so this mod radically alters the building shapes to give the settlement a unique shape and fingerprint.Holds the Cities Overhaul - A huge all in one mod, but actually despite the huge patch centre I got spooked early on in the decision making progress about compatibility and wanted to mix and match some town overhauls with other town overhauls so I'm sorry although it looks great in parts I didn't give this a real look. Fans of Holds will have to look elsewhere.1-settlement overhauls - we'll get to them in turn.CFTO vs Convenient Carriages - Convenient carriages seems slightly less elegant but easier compatibility when you can't keep in your head straight what you're using. I've switched over, though I'm sure with enough thought I could have kept CFTO.Mash everything together and hope it sticksSo as a greedy mod user all I wanted to do was throw together The Great Cities, Cities of the North for Dawnstar and Morthal, and JK, and stick Arthmoor's villages or the great villages wherever wasn't covered by the resulting fusion blast. There is an "on hold" patch by Xenon but the author directs you to this Monumental effort by Gardden. This author too has moved on from making the patch.I'm pretty sure I did something wrong, or I missed patches, or something. But I'd find JK things in the way of Great City things, or things clipping through walls, and forget trying to get it going with all the ancillary mods... There is simply too much work for one author to do in a short time, and as we see the Great City and Cities of the North get updated in the future you'll see greater problems. It's a good effort, and I realise I'm not helping by pointing out specific things for an author to fix, but it was a while ago sorry.It was here that after a long time trying to get stuff playing nice, I decided that if there was a Great City I fancied trying out, I would just delete JK for that city. I generally found Soldier's work and detailing just as interesting as the JK standard so that would get rid of a compatibility headache. And hey, I wanted to try out new things, right? Out with the old.WhiterunI've currently got it as just the standard JK with sewers/outlaws refuges. I've been tempted but eventually decided not to go for thing such as perfect or autumnal whiterun- too many trees. I haven't tried Eek's beautiful Whiterun yet- initially I thought it a bit busy but now coming back to it at the end of doing all my other tinkering I've changed my mind. Eli's breezehome has loot freaking out about about deleted navmeshes which I need to investigate so I may yet jump ship on it. As an aside, I adore the nordic carving pair of mods, especially the Dragon Throne Wall. Try it out. I may throw in the horse, undecided.RiverwoodYep, it's JK again. I like my Riverwood small and sleepy- at one stage I considered Riverwood light add-on but there's a lack of information on what that does. I indulged in Beginner's Shack because you can make it a home for a 3dnpc character.Riften, WindhelmHonestly I'm in two minds to learn how to make Dawn of Skyrim modular and throw it back on for these two settlements. Snowy AF Windhelm provides Windhelm with a neat solution to giving Windhelm a little more character- throw it under so much white stuff the city of london will be after it (one manhole for skyrim sewers is lost). Riften Docks Overhaul is a welcome "best of" addition to the outskirts of the city- don’t be a idiot like me and make the beta 1.5 file overwrite instead of merge the 1.4 file, it’ll cause any tamerial cell load to crash. In the end I didn't plump for any of the city entrance overhauls for Windhelm, even though the bridge is a bit dull, apart from Windhelm Bridge Seam Fix to stop the very obvious line on the lip of the bridge. Feels like a sledgehammer to crack a nut but it works.MarkarthIt's JK. I felt Dawn of Skyrim was almost too busy but not quite, so playing without it will make the city feel a bit cleaner for this playthrough. I loved the beautiful bridge of City entrances overhaul but the compatibility problems reported led me to go for the fixed version instead. Stoop over Markarth is a nice balcony I can observe the forsworn revolution from and I like my Understone Keep rubble swept up thank you very much.SolitudeThere's actually more solitude (the city itself) overhauls about now, and honestly I didn't think I would like Enhanced Solitude as much as I do. A patch is available for JK (or JK+DOS) and outlaws refuges, the mod does drop in fps a little but makes up for it in the new shops and bustle. I think the bit I love the most is the paved shop street going up from the outer gate to the solitude worldspace gate. Don't use the JK-Missives patch to make the pair compatible, or you'll lose the board behind a wall. Do use the JK Noticeboard patch. No, I have no idea how Holidays is going to cope with it. If you use skyrim sewers you'll notice the manholes fade in, but as far as I can tell is otherwise useable.The author also really liked solitude expansion and has both offered a patch for it and a whole new complimentary mod Enhanced Solitude Docks that works off it that does for the docks what enhanced solitude did for the city itself. However, both lagged like crazy for me (there is a patch for majestic mountains in Enhanced Solitude Docks but as I’m running cathedral either the problem is this user being an idiot, or cathedral majestic mountains is different and the patch provided doesn't fix whatever the issue is), and when I tried out solitude expansion some buildings were morphed into the mountains and inaccessible. Please note I was using the Enhanced S – S Expansion patch at the time, so the usual caveat of a missing a patch somewhere is probably true. There's some additional tweaks and other mod integrations available here which you may be interested in, including skyrim sewers replacing an area introduced in enhanced solitude docks.I've gone for Solitude Docks Updated this time round. It is a more focused overhaul (and distinctly less laggy) with plenty of patches on offer and does well enough for me. Don't forget your frescoes and rectory for holy characters, or harborside for a sea view (though I found it too caused a small amount of lag with my setup). Finally, Centred Blue Palace Throne makes the throne room just that little bit grander.FalkreathThe great city of Falkreath is actually what inspired me to rejig in the first place. I adore that graveyard, especially when paired with Sepolcri (as far as I can work out, the aio great cities patch works for falkreath even if you're just running the individual great city of falkreath). I cut JK- this was a pinch point for the JK-Great city patches, especially around the jarl's longhouse, the blacksmith, and too many big trees in the graveyard. Missives will work, but it'll be half out a low wall, and using the JK-missives patch will move it in front of the execution block. Best just select the offending wall pieces and use the disable console command.I find the opening hall to the jarl's longhouse slightly odd (a tight room that turns into the main hall), but it's a wonderful looking building inside and out (ignore the lighting in the ceiling). I dread to think what cities of the north's falkreath will do to it in the future- I'll never get the damn thing compatible, will I?DawnstarThis is another classic Great City series example- strong walls, tall Jarl’s palace, busy port. I think pairing it with JK felt like a mistake- there are some tight spots along the upper wall area by the mine and on the docks and the city entrance that I felt the extra touches from both mods overwhelmed rather than added, and I felt it certainly didn’t help the navmesh. There are additional problems if you’re running CFTO with this combination- I got tired trying to work out which patch would move the ferryman back onto the docks, and the carriage out front will refuse to unphase from the wall even with the patch- again, probably my error. Cities of the North goes for a simpler approach to Dawnstar- no planked dock, but the town is shaped by these wonderful cosy Nordic houses that stand out against the snow instead. The Jarl’s longhouse exterior and inn exterior both look fantastic, and the jarl’s interior has this cool raised dais above a feasting hall which all feels very medieval. I haven’t tried to see if characters will feast there instead of the inn, but I really feel they should- someone should make a mod, or it feels like a waste.The inn is rather large and has an oversized oven as a focal point but I have been getting constant errors in the opining dawnstar “I can’t sleep” scene- the barman is able to speak but I can’t find him even with clipping turned off, and the dark elf doesn’t appear most of the time. I think there might be a bad install or something to check there. The whalebones in the roof are an excellent touch, but all in all I wish I was eating and drinking in the Jarl’s hall. I can’t comment too much about it standalone but I felt it dovetailed well with JK- the JK detailing around the dock, buildings around the mine, and entrance is kept and apart from maybe one narrow squeeze on the walk between the jarl longhouse and the inn it still feels spacious. You can even throw in Arthmoor’s Dawnstar for a slightly bigger town- just head on over to the huge patch collection maintained by Janquel, who I think honestly deserves almost as much praise as the mod authors for his extensive work here. We’ll see him again in Morthal.I feel it’s almost unfair I haven’t tried the Cities of the North – Great City version of Dawnstar (same patch page), especially as I’ve replaced CFTO with Convenient Carriages which was the main headache inducer, but I reckon that’ll be a strong option to look at if you’re looking to reshape dawnstar. I’m sticking with the CotN-JK-Arthmoor version for now.MorthalI adore the CotN houses for Morthal. They have this bleached look that makes me weirdly think the trees were felled and lay in a bog before being used. The inn is cosy, the Thaumaturgist’s hut is this weird two story building (suggestion – a fence on the top exterior floor), and the houses tend to have their own sheltered exterior to keep stuff. The guy who wants to be a guard has some practice dummies in his which is some nice environmental narrative stuff. The inn is this weird slightly twisted hall (I think it needs an inn counter area rather than table for the innkeeper but this is probably a design choice), and highmoon hall is beautiful inside and out. I have thrones of skyrim over the default version included here, but if you like your Canadian Native American legends I guess it looks like east coast Native American art.Again, pairing with JK does wonders- a palisade around the entrances ties everything together, and small details here and there make it feel more lived in (even if the blacksmith sometimes gets a bit stuck). The noticeboard/CotN patch offered does work until you add in JK- it then gets hidden slightly behind some crates. I’d recommend either the JK COTN patch removing those crates (there’s plenty in that little nook already) or the noticeboard patch moving it slightly to its left behind the wooden bench. In the meantime, you can simply use the disable command. Bridges of Skyrim adds a bit to it as well.The Great City of Morthal has some strong ideas about walls (its worn palisade is a superior version of JK’s, and adds a small amount of stone which might be a bit much) and has the nicest drawbridge (if you use bridges of skyrim the patch will overwrite it with the Bridges of Skyrim version which I think is a shame). The lagoon feels a little busier and there’s a whole extra vendor opposite the jarl’s longhouse. As usual, pairing with JK is a mistake- you can barely get down the main street with all the extra decorations and points of interest, never mind the NPCs. Pick one and go for it. However, and remember it may just be me because I’ve never seen anyone else complain, I noticed that the raised entrance to the jarl longhouse will cause guards to phase through the planks and drop down so you’re looking at a torso on guard. The navmesh at the crossroads with the inn leading to the bridge appears to have some problems- guards, children, and people from the opening scene will get caught and bump into each other, even without the missives board present. They will be unable to disentangle themselves at all. Therefore I went with Cities of the North/JK. I didn’t give Morthal Overhaul II or Morthal Ages a go, so apologies for that. In my small testing run abouts I’ve seen the impact Denizens of Morthal has even just walking into the inn, so keeping an eye on that one.WinterholdI like my Winterhold overhauls similar to Brexit- a very obvious show of yesterday’s grandeur being yeeted off a cliff where everyone can see the ruins. I guess in real life if this happened a hundred years ago or whatever we wouldn’t be seeing fully formed buildings down the bottom and they would have rebuilt a fair bit of the town but hey, if it looks pretty I’m willing to forgive. This does rule out the various restored winterhold mods (1, 2, 3. Realistic winterhold restores a bit too much for my taste as well. I admit, I haven’t tried out Capital of Winterhold (sorry!) but it’s more the approach I was thinking of.Oddly enough, I really didn’t like the pictures of CotN’s version. The houses themselves are wonderful, like giant mountain goats in blizzards, but there’s not a huge amount of ruin decoration, the town is very sparse, and the fortress while undeniably cool is not what I want in my Windhelm. It’s too… developed and big and cool to have just 3 buildings next to it. With the included JK patch apparently the ruins get spruced up a bit. A patch with the Great City (hello again Janquel) makes it more like CotN than the great cities, which I guess is inevitable but a shame.Winterhold – Expanded ruins is possibly my favourite set of ruins to add to Winterhold, and comes in several flavours- a full version with walls, ruins, underground maze, extra lore/quest, and player home, or modular. I paired the ruins/walls only version with QaxeIsKaze’s excellent but sadly unavailable Rebuilding Winterhold. However, the Great City of Winterhold has some really nice ruins, and soldierofwar has clearly put in the effort to design the ruined area to have a view of it tumbled down into the sea below. The houses down the cliff look a little too intact but it’s glorious. I’m a big fan of using what is basically the windhelm buildings, they add a lot of character and make the city feel narrower and claustrophobic, and the extra blacksmith clanging makes you feel like there’s still life in the old place yet. I couldn’t work out how to make the great cities – outlaws refuges patch work with just the modular “Great city of Winterhold” file, but I can live with the extra well. It’s not necessarily perfect for me- there doesn’t appear to be a JK patch (so I removed Winterhold from JK as noted above), I’ve hit the reported error of Birna’s shop being closed at all times, and there are a lot of houses that are unoccupied but you can only tell by looking closely and realising the doors are boarded up- perhaps the windows should be as well, or at the very least no lights coming from them? There is also possibly an issue with the crossroads here as well- there are 2 guards that appear to halt and not move from the spot. Strangely the Jarl’s steward will happily wander through- perhaps it’s a guard patrol route choice rather than a navmesh error? The jarl longhouse is suitably impressive by itself but is hidden away in a narrow side street rather than the main street, but I like the new rotated inn building and where it opens out to. Again, I seem to remember problems with CTFO but maybe that was my end not figuring out the patches, but moving to Convenient carriages solves it.There’s a new alternative about that I have in fact gone at time of writing– ClefJ’s Winterhold- I need to run the Better Dynamic Snow patcher and had a problem with floating embers in the inn from embersxd, but it’s a strong design that’s had some thought behind it with a spectacular central fountain square, a redesigned jarl palace (though the opening foyer is surprisingly small), a tucked out the way player home, and a moderately expanded amount of shops on offer including a clothing and a blacksmith vendor . Even the houses themselves have had a small makeover that brings something unique. I had a minor problem in that the embersxd patch that is allegedly there doesn’t seem to download, but I submitted a question to find out if it was my end or not. I also noticed Birna was closed in this mod too. There are other patches that I believe are in development- missives is perfectly usable but oddly placed in front of some irrelevant stairs at present which will be rectified.Raven RockHonestly there’s not much out there for Raven Rock. Quaint Raven Rock add lots of visually interesting things around town- I like the combined statues of the daedra the most. I just went for that.Dragon BridgeThis is another Great Cities mod I was really excited to try out. I like the design philosophy behind it- great big walls befitting a strategic point, and the addition of the jetty while not very functional really breaks it up and makes it more visually interesting from the other bank. The picnic table on top of one of the walls is a favourite spot of mine too. The conversion of the Penitus Oculatus barracks into what almost appears to be a chapter house with a church-like tower from the outside adds a bit of variety and I have grown to like, while the legionary on guard in the very fortified bridge section of the town really makes you feel like you’ve walked into a heavily guarded fortress. I feel there is a navmesh or guard route issue as I keep spotting them bumping into walls, but they free themselves after a while.This really doesn’t work with JK, even with the patches I tried out- have a look at the execution block area or the inn’s outside area if you don’t believe me. I miss JK putting the blacksmith near the Penitus Oculatus barracks, but it’s a minor quibble and is worth the trade off. I’ve noticed Skyrim 3d rocks makes a rock under the blacksmith pop up through the decking (a simple disable command fixes it). A final minor quibble is that maybe the wolf that’s very close to the city should be disabled because it just makes npcs run around and freak even if they easily deal with it.Although JK is out and should be disabled, the Arthmoor compatibility patch included on the page works flawlessly. This is what I’m running with at the moment.IvarsteadAs we move to the smaller settlements, you can really tell that Soldierofwar is trying new ideas and has maybe increased their skills. There’s no huge wall like the great city collection, but suddenly Ivarstead has an impressive temple to Kynareth- which really makes sense as you consider it’s the last major stop on a pilgrimage route before the big trek up the mountain, and in many cases I bet the last stop (we know not everyone goes up the mountain). It’s based off stave churches in scandanavia and has a wonderful interior- the author has been asked a few times if it’s not too tall but he’s replied several times (including to me) that it’s in proportion to real life, so who are we to argue? Besides, it’s the last bit of flat ground on the trail before High Hrothgar, if a jarl wanted to build something big Ivarstead is the place to do it. All the buildings have had a makeover, and I’m a big fan of the bridges and lake jetty in particular. The interior of the inn is also changed to match the exterior, and reminds me a bit of some of the city of the north inn interiors. There’s so much character added to this small village, I knew I had to give this mod a shot. There’s also an impressive patch collection which includes a JK patch!RoriksteadJK’s Skyrim/Arthmoor actually turned this small farming community into a relatively heavily fortified and busy settlement- I think it’s the extra shops JK added. I don’t know if the Great City version of the village was supposed to invoke a viking D-style enclosure fort/settlement (it’s a thing, according to a book I read), but Rorikstead almost perfectly fits the profile. It’s got a feasting hall for the lord which looks spectacular from the outside, and a couple of key buildings (the inn, though in real life this would probably be an armoury or stables) inside, and several dwellings and farms on the outside. There’s not quite as much farming added as in JK/Arthmoor, but it still all looks very prosperous. There’s even a ruined house which must be some poor horse thief’s. The inside of the hall is surprisingly small- I was looking for an upstairs for where Rorik slept. It’s also again a pity this wonderful lord’s hall is not going to be used by the NPCs (again, tell me if I’m wrong) because everyone will pile into the inn. Ah well- it’s a fortified small farming village with a real visual identity, rather than a middle skyrim falkreath/dawnstar. I love it.Kynesgrove, Darkwater crossing, Soljun's Sinkhole, and Old HroldanThe first 3 are basically Arthmoor exclusives- I’m actually a little surprised there’s not many mods for Kynesgrove- dragon mound, mine, proximity to Windhelm, main quest… seems like a few things you could work with there. I have seen that the Great Town mod is going to release at some stage though, so looking forward to that. Soljun’s Sinkhole is actually touched on by the Great Village of Old Hroldan, as it changes the farmhouse that makes it up to match the tileset introduced in that mod to keep it consistent. These buildings are very distinctive- the inn especially is unrecognisable and novel with its 2nd floor main common room. The ruined wall with the talos statue looks striking as well, and an attempt to change what was in vanilla basically an isolated inn in the reach with the lore of the location, but more emphasis is on the present day village than the old fortress that used to be here. The other mod I’ve tried (and have used previously) Old Hroldan Ruins does the opposite- it makes a vast set of ruins that dominates the road to Markarth with its tall towers and relatively heavy guard contingent. It comes in two flavours- ruins (and monument) only, and “full” which adds a shop in a ruined house, a recently abandoned house you can take over (with a crafting basement) and a very extensive dungeon of ghosts that if I recall correctly fought against Tiber Septim. I always seem to get the forgemaster’s fingers stuck there. The whole place just looms out the fog if the weather is inclined to be dramatic and you get a real sense of people scratching a living in the ruins rather than it being a thriving settlement. But the real success story about this location is that thanks to the efforts of that amazing person Janquel and cheesetoast8 every mod mentioned in this section is compatible. Everybody lives/mods, Rose. Everybody lives.Shor's StoneCan you remember the last time you went to Shor’s Stone? I can’t either. Although I like the different building style (I swear these minor villages buildings are getting closer to CotN standard of differentiation every day) I was at first put off by the addition of Fallowstone Hall, as I am unfamiliar with ESO and thought the idea of a companions outpost in this tiny village in such an epic-looking clifftop fortress was too much. But the hall itself is rather small (though it has a vault and items etc), the fortress is in ruins and made of this very shetlands style piled stone, so I’m willing to give it a chance over Arthmoor’s functional village this time. I may change my mind. Once again Janquel has patches, though they appeared to have trouble with working out what to do with Elder Scrolls Online Imports.KarthwastenThe great town offers the same Breton-inspired buildings seen in Old Hroldan, but also expands the town’s functionality and makes the hall actually interesting enough to have been pointed out way back in Arena. Yes, there’s patches by the usual suspect.Mixwater MillThese are perhaps candidates for the prettiest Great Village/town buildings. An unfussy extension of a small lumber camp that is once again serviced by Janquel. This in contrast to the slightly more involved and extensive Mixwater Mill Reborn.Final thoughtsWell, there you have it- a month or two of stubbornness descending into madness. There is a wealth of options for refreshing your cities in skyrim that wasn’t there a few years ago, and with lockdown continuing in many cases I’m excited to see what new stuff will be put together in the coming few months. I hope it was both useful for some people either wondering what’s available or trying to narrow down their options, and a cautionary tale for those trying to have it all. I may end up having to change some of this as well- I haven't even started adding quest mods! I might end up having to add cheesemod for everyone after all... via /r/skyrimmods https://ift.tt/3nmyLip
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